I wanted to post this thread to see how many different definitions people have on what is a "good christian".
I believe in the good lord, I try to keep from judging others, (which is very hard to do), I also believe in the golden rule and try to abide by it. I don't go to church or pray as often as I should. I try to help others when I can. I do loose my temper sometimes and feel guilty afterwards. SO...does this make me a "good christian" ?

Recently, a collaberation of southern Christian church leaders signed and approved the outdated concept that a woman SHOULD SUBMIT to her husband in order to be a "good Christian." Still think that is a good idea?

(Cross-posting from another thread.)

It's hard for me to imagine that in 2008, with women rising in the workplace to more equally rival men, there are still men (and women) who believe that a woman must submit to her husband within their marriage to be a good Christian. That subservient attitude parallels the opinion that people, of whatever race, ethnicity or sex, are not created equal and therefore exist as powerful versus less-powerful. The only people who should submit to others within a relationship are children to their parents.

Now, as to your question "Does this make me a good Christian?", my personal opinion is that the way you try to live your life certainly makes you a good person, and since you say you believe in the good Lord, then you're a Christian. I think that a Christian who tries their best to be a good person can indeed call themselves a good Christian.

You know who I don't think are good Christians? The folks who spend a lot of time in church but go for all the wrong reasons. The ones who read the bible and preach the parts they choose to believe to others while ignoring the parts they don't follow themselves. People who think that only they know what God wants and everyone else who doesn't think the same way is clueless, or ignorant, or gonna burn in hell for all eternity. But I guess the most un-Christian-like failing I can think of is judging others for not being like we think they should be. Racial/ethnic judgements, sexual orientation judgements...looking at people who aren't like we think they should be or don't behave within our personal guidelines. And that absolutely includes evangelical preachers who think it's their divine duty to judge others based on their own interpretation of what they think the bible says.

I think a good Christian will always try to love all others as they want themselves to be loved and let all the judgements and punishment be left to God.

-nab

Well then..................I think alot of these "revenge mongers" need to take a good look in the mirror. Now more than ever do I wonder WWJD. I seriouly doubt he would like reading some of these postings.

We should focus on WHY this man murdered his children. Remember what he said to the police from the very beginning? That he did it to send a message to the mother that he was THE MAN, the HEAD of the household - that she was supposed to do what HE said. All of you out there that are trying to define what a Christian is should listen carefully to that. Recently, a collaberation of southern Christian church leaders signed and approved the outdated concept that a woman SHOULD SUBMIT to her husband in order to be a "good Christian." Still think that is a good idea?

I still think that wives should submit to their husbands because that is what God's Word tells us to do. I don't care where we are as a society I follow The Word. The Bible is the inherent word of God and is applicable yesterday, today, and forever. Changes in this world does not change the Bible. It stays the same.

All this talk about being a "good" Christian is silly. It's like trying to measure your salvation by how good you are. The fact is that we are all sinners and that we are only saved by the grace of God. The blood of His son, Jesus, is the ONLY thing that makes us good enough for anything. We have to accept Jesus' sacrifice on the cross in order to be "good" enough. Yes Christians should strive everyday to be more like Christ, but we will never be perfect.

God did not tell women to submit to their husbands, MEN did. Did God personally tell you to subordinate yourself to your husband? Or did you lack the independence to form your own opinion? Ever think there was an impure motive for that particular masculinized interpretation of the Bible? It assured that men got the lion's share of the power, money, and control in this world. Self-serving, don't you think? If women and men are equal then why weren't these things equal between them? Obviously most women rejected it as the vast majority of them work outside of the home, rights are equalizing, and freedom is a reality for women. Take a look around you. Times they have already changed. I think you need to wake up to what already is. All too often I have heard the Bible (and other religious works) used to repress, oppress, and dominate women. It is used as a justification to keep women under the thumb of her so-called "equal" partner. I don't buy the 'there is only one word' arguement either. If there was truely only ONE word, then why were there TWO versions of the Bible? Truth is, there are millions of Bibles because each person interprets that book in his or her own way.

risingtide42 - 17 January 2008 01:39 PM

We should focus on WHY this man murdered his children.

I respectfully disagree. Addictions make people act irrationally. Even if he gives a reason, it won't necessarily be the reason. Ask a two-year old why he dumped baby powder all over the floor - he'll say "I don't know." Addicts don't behave for reasons non-addicts can understand.

God bless him with wisdom.

I, too, respectfully disagree. I specialize in domestic violence and child abuse and I can tell you point blank that addiction does NOT cause abusive behavior. If crack or any other drug caused violent behavior then violence would occur each time a person used the drug. Take alcohol, for example. It is often cited as causal in domestic murders. However, there are several problems with that assumption. First, he did not kill her the first time he struck her. What stopped him if he had no self control? Second, once he realized he was violent after drinking and he drank again and was violent again he made a conscious choice and is responsible for his actions. Third, alcohol is involved in the perpetrator alone only about 30% of the time. If it were causal the percentage would be higher. What we know about domestic violence (and this includes the murder of spouses and children) is that there must be a structure of dominance in place before it happens. Dominance is found in nearly 100% of these cases. A man's belief that being male makes him superior, gives him more power, and affords him the right to engage in violence is also irrational. Lastly, the vast majority of domestic violence is husband to wife. This one-sided phenom is no accident. Rarely do women dominate men. Though drugs may facilitate violence, they do not cause it.

22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Saviour. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no-one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church—30 for we are members of his body. 31 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. 32 This is a profound mystery— but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
Ephesians 5:22-33 New International Version

Yes, God did tell me to submit to husband because one way He speaks to me is through His Word. You can see above that it is mentioned a couple times. This is not my opinion, it is fact. That does not need to be interpreted, it is self explanatory.
When reading the Bible you have to make sure you are reading a version that has been translated from the original hebrew and greek, not interpreted. Interpretation is something that happens between you and God.

The husband/wife relationship is set up to be a reflection of Christ and the church. If a woman cannot learn to submit to her husband than how is she going to be able to do that in her relationship with Jesus Christ? If you read further in that passage you see that the husbands love is a love that surpasses all other and would not take advantage or be abusive of his wife. That makes submitting different than say an owner/slave relationship.

The Bible doesn't say that women aren't to be free or in leadership positions, just not over a man. There are many God-fearing women in the Bible that were in leadership positions. Queen Esther and Deborah the prophetess are two examples.

Anyway, husbands should respect their wives, thus not making demands of their wives like they are a slave. Whether you agree or not that's what the Bible says and its between you and God whether you believe.

If a woman cannot learn to submit to her husband than how is she going to be able to do that in her relationship with Jesus Christ?

You're kidding, right?

So...what if a woman never marries...never has a husband? I guess she's outta luck then as far as "learning to submit" to Jesus Christ.

Who knew having a husband was the only way to a good relationship with the Lord?

-nab

I never said that being married was the only way to learn how to submit, it is just one way. There are other relationships where people learn to submit, otherwise how would a man ever learn? But if a woman has a hard time submitting to her husband or either refuses to do so, she is probably going to have the same problem in her relationship with Christ.